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MessagePosté: 08 Juil 2007, 23:05
de Speed1Kiss
Et bien moi je dit NON !

MessagePosté: 08 Juil 2007, 23:29
de Tokar
If that is your stance, then why are the following programs not on your Craptheque list?

Spyware Doctor - includes opt-out Google Toolbar
McAfee AntiVirus - includes out-out McAfee SiteAdvisor, which is the same as Web Security Guard.
LinkScanner Pro - same as Web Security Guard

You say we remove other toolbars. The only toolbars Spyware Terminator remove are bad ones...ones identified with displaying advertisements, stealing information, or selling your traffic data.
We do not remove any toolbar we deem safe - Google, Yahoo!,, MSN, Windows Live, AOL, etc. They are not touched and they are not harmed.

We are not in the business of gaining competitive advantage through removal of other toolbars. I insist proof of this.

I believe toolbars are helpful in making your job of searching the web easier and using your computer in general.
Everyone I know uses toolbars. Internet Explorer 7 has a toolbar for searching, and the beloved Firefox has a toolbar for searching as well. Opera has it and so does Safari. The toolbars provided by the browsers are limited in their functionality and only provide searching. Our toolbar, like Google toolbar, or Yahoo! toolbar, or others, provides links to helpful resources like, news outlets, and other features like RSS Feeding and integrating Mail Checker.
And, our toolbar provides searching through Google, Yahoo, MSN and It is not singular with its search abilities.

I do not understand the word "fourguer". Google Translate does not like this word.

99% of net users might not be informed, but if they are using the internet, they sure can read, and if they read our download page they can find a version with Web Security Guard, and one WITHOUT. And the one that includes Web Security Guard, a screen is clearly presented asking the user to opt-out of the toolbar. You may shun the "opt-out" (and not "opt-in") practice but it is used by many other programs, as mentioned above, and you dont seem to be looking down on those programs. I can present you with a LONG list of programs which make it "opt-out" for the bundled toolbar. If this is the sole reason for listing our software, then I demand you list all of the software I find.

Some software goes as far to add an opt-out install of Firefox + Google Toolbar for Firefox. You dont shun that???

If you shun toolbars and search engines, I wonder how you are able to get the information you need from the internet if you dont use them. I also wonder how much time you spend getting the information you need. I guess there are always the public libraries, which are free of search engines.
Information collected by search engines are 100% anonymous and they arent sold or used in any malicious ways. Crawler's privacy policy is similar, and probably more strict and secure than Google's, AOL's, Yahoo!'s, and Microsoft's.
I suggest you read the EULA, TOU and Privacy Policies of these search engines to understand what a search engine does. There is no dark mafia conglomerate associated with Search engines, I'm sorry to say.

Let me make this clear before I start the advertising discussion below: Crawler software does not show advertisements. The toolbar operates similar to all other toolbars in respect to advertising. Please consult the Privacy Policies for Google, AOL, MSN, Yahoo!, Crawler and a host of other search engines to understand what I speak of.


Is there a problem with internet advertising? I have purchased many useful products and services after being informed through internet advertisements.
If you think internet advertising is espionage, then you might as well turn off your television because the advertisements you see on your TV are determined by similar means. The television stations poll the audience and determine what the viewer wants to see and what they dont. When I watch the evening news program, I am presented with continuous advertisements for medicine for retiring adults. Why is this? Because the television networks know, by what you call "espionage", that the majority of the TV audience are elderly or retiring.

We might as well also stop physical forms of advertising as well, based on your beliefs. Gas stations show advertisements of coffee in the morning, and sandwiches in the afternoon, and soup at night. Why? They know people want coffee on the way to work, a sandwich for lunch, and something hot for dinner...they know this through "espionage" as you put it.

Advertising is a way of life, a way to make money and it is present in every, I repeat, EVERY, form of media. Magazines, television, radio, internet, newspapers, sporting events, on the highways, etc. Advertising is the only way companies get their product name out there, it is the only way they make money. How do they maximize their money? They tailor the advertisements to their audience. They know what the audience wants and they show/play the advertisements that are the most useful. If you were to remove this "tailored" advertising, you might as well close the majority of businesses around the world.

Do I like advertising? No, not really, but I understand that it is the only way for most companies to make their money. Not necessarily to make money from showing the advertisements, but to get their name out there to make money on future purchases. I have since stopped using advertising blocking software because I know that websites need to make their money and with me, and hundreds of others blocking those advertisements I know that those sites will be closed in less than a few months...and I like those free services on the internet. I sure dont want to pay for them.

Look, I know you have a problem with toolbars, but it is no reason to misinterpret the privacy policies set forth by these search engines to determine them as "crap". You might as well have everyone turn off their computers if you want things the way you prefer.

And it is in no way presented as a REQUIRED installation. We do not say "Web Security Guard is required". We simply explain the product and provide the user the simple ability to avoid the installation of such. If they determine they want it, they install it. If they determine they dont want it, they dont install it.

If you have such a problem with us including an optional product install (something McAfee, Spyware Doctor, and a host of others are guilty of) then you might as well just link everyone you know to our version WITHOUT included software which you can find in the middle of our download page, at this link: ... inator.exe.

TRUSTe being a "hoax" is your opinion - we do not believe it to be a hoax. We at Crawler take it VERY seriously and so does TRUSTe. There is no documented information as to whether they are a hoax or not, but all I know is that if our toolbar does certain "bad" things, like track user site habits like Alexa toolbar, we will have certification revoked. Many companies use TRUSTe certification as a gauge as to whether to install certain software or not. You taking it to be a "hoax" is not a reason to throw it out the window and not use it in defense of Crawler Toolbar.

Our major Craptheque-type site in the Americas is SpywareWarrior - Nowhere do they mention TRUSTe is a hoax. If you think TRUSTe is a hoax, then please contact them and take the issue up with them.

They may not be something French people use for certification of privacy policies, but we do, and we take it VERY seriously.

Spyware Terminator DOES NOT collect any information about your habits. I repeat, it DOES NOT.

If your problem lies with Crawler Toolbar, then it is NOT a reason to list Spyware Terminator. Spyware Terminator, independently, is a safe program and does not collect any information. I will need PROOF of this if you wish to continue to make these claims.

I am not sure what else to tell you. Your opinions on the internet and toolbars seem to be misguided and you are holding our software to a double standard by not questioning Spyware Doctor's motives for including Google Toolbar, McAfee on its motives with including SiteAdvisor, etc.

If you find the practice of bundling toolbars to be bad then i will provide you a list of software which does it and I will expect those items to be added to your crap list as well.

MessagePosté: 08 Juil 2007, 23:38
de Tokar
I also kindly request you address the items addressed by me in this thread: You may address them here if you like.

Namely, I wish for you to address items listed on your Craptheque page that:
Crawler Toolbar is downloaded by ActiveX drive-by downloading
Crawler Toolbar is involved with advertisement delivery
Spyware Terminator is bad because nothing is free
Crawler Toolbar includes Trojans
Crawler Toolbar installs a bad BHO item
Spyware Terminator removes competitor products
Spyware Terminator sends information somewhere

All of these claims are false, and are addressed in that other thread.

The basis for your craptheque listing is about these items and you did not specifically address them in your reply.

MessagePosté: 09 Juil 2007, 14:10
de ipl
Hi Tokar, hi everyone,
Tokar a écrit:...
I do not understand the word "fourguer". Google Translate does not like this word...
The English equivalent is:
- to flog (UK)
- to sell off (US)
It's a colloquial way to say you force users to install it one way or another, even using strong-arm tactics.

Vous êtes-vous demandé pourquoi tout le monde cherche à faire des toolbars et vous les fourguer ?

translation: Have you ever wondered why everyone tries to create toolbars and sell them off to you?

MessagePosté: 09 Juil 2007, 21:48
de Tokar
OK, if that is the translation:

We do not force any software on to our users. The installation of Web Security Guard + Crawler Toolbar is optional and clearly expressed as an option in the installer. Also, we offer an installation of Spyware Terminator without Web Security Guard + Crawler Toolbar on our download page.

Some users have said that it is hard to international users to understand the installer because it is only in English. We are working to translate not only our installer, but our homepage as well to make things absolutely clear for our international users.

The reason to create toolbars is to make searching the developer search engine easier. I think research would show that people are more likely to search a search engine without having to visit the actual site (everyone I know only uses toolbars to search their search engines).

The reason to offer them as optional installations like Google Toolbar in DivX, or Yahoo! Toolbar in CCleaner, or Crawler Toolbar in Spyware Terminator is to bring awareness of the search engine. Most people wouldnt know about Crawler or to visit crawler or what does. After a user searches with our toolbar they will be able to quickly determine that is a search engine.
People unaware of what is will do a search with the toolbar, learn of what Google is (that it is a search engine) and do their searching there.
Search engine awareness = more searches = more money (based off the search engine business model).

I dont think 99% of the people in this world know what Google Desktop is, but by including Google Desktop as an optional install in their very popular program Google Earth they get installations by users who would have otherwise never heard of the program.

That is the simplest answer I can give.

MessagePosté: 10 Juil 2007, 16:59
de Tokar
Spyware Terminator 2.0 beta has been officially released: ... sts&t=2126

Please take into consideration this new version when performing your review.

MessagePosté: 16 Juil 2007, 21:39
de pierre
Devant le différent qui m'oppose personnellement à Tokar sur le jugement que je porte sur Spyware Terminator, et qui pourrait mettre en cause le site même d', je demande expressément que plus personne n'intervienne dans ce topic sans m'en avoir parlé au préalable. Le sujet est trop sérieux pour être traité de façon superficielle ou à coup de réactions épidermiques même par d'anciens membres aussi compétents et respectables soient ils. Si cela n’est pas respecté je verrouille le fil de discussion jusqu’à ce que je dégage le temps pour ré-analyser l’ensemble des pièces et du produit.

Facing the different that opposes me, personally, to Tokar on the judgement that I carry on Spyware Terminator, and which could blame even the website, I ask expressly that nobody any more intervene in this topic without having speak preliminary about it with me. The subject is too serious to be covered superficially or with epidermic reactions even by former members, such qualified and sizeable they are. If that is not respected, I lock the thread until I find enough time to analyse once more the whole parts and the product.

MessagePosté: 27 Juil 2007, 22:56
de pierre
Devant mon manque de temps actuel et le fait que je vais partir en vacances durant Août, la fiche Spyware Terminator est, pour l'instant, retirée. L'étude reprendra en septembre.

In front of my lack of time and the fact that I will be on holidays during August, the card Spyware Terminator, for the moment, is withdrawn. The study will go on in September

MessagePosté: 10 Sep 2007, 20:48
de Tokar
Have you commenced the study, pierre?

MessagePosté: 12 Sep 2007, 01:11
de pierre
Not yet